Monday, July 11, 2005

One's Own Hands...

I heard of an interesting peula (educational program/activity) over the weekend. It was discussing passivity. Have students sit in a circle. Inform them there is not enough food in the world. Within 50 years we will all starve, unless we take some food we have now and replant it. We will in essence be starving some people now to save the world. If a student is willing to starve vegetables in the hospital move your chair out of the circle creating a second ring. All those people who move out are willing to kill to save the world. If you are against them starving people and you're willing to kill them to stop them from killing others move your chair into the center of the circle creating a third ring. After much research it is discovered that we need to take more food from people now to save the world. If you would be willing to starve those over 90 years old to save the world move your chair to the outer circle. Again if you are willing to kill those starving the seniors in their attempt to save the world move your chair to the middle ring. The list continues with criminals, mentally & physically handicapped, and adding on as many cateragories as the leader wants. In the end you will have most of the people in the middle ring with a few on the outside ring, and a few in the center ring. Those in the middle were not willing to take a stand. They don't agree with the killings, but they're not willing to stop it.

There is a great "poem" referring to the WW2 Germany era by Pastor Martin Niemöller
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me

15 Comments:

Blogger Heidi said...

What an interesting program. See... its hard to figure out what I would do.

On one hand... I would try to stop any form of starvation... But would I kill to do it? I dont think so.

I would vote to institute a plan to take a little bit from everyone on earth, and create a stash. I would then daven, and hope for the best in the future. Does this make me someone unwilling to stand up for a cause? I guess maybe. But then again, maybe I am standing for the cause of preserving all lives?

Interesting to think about though

2:23 AM  
Blogger Veev said...

Starvation IS killing.

3:59 AM  
Blogger Heidi said...

yeah i know... but she asked would I kill the people who are threatening the starvation... and I cant say I would. Im not sure you are allowed to kill someone unless your life is in immediate danger... I could be wrong though.

5:08 AM  
Blogger Heidi said...

I remember in an ethics class we talked about if someone was in a situation where they were told to kill someone, or else they would be killed. Are they allowed to kill in order to save their own life? And the answer was no. They had to just do nothing.

But I guess it is different... b/c the starvation people would be evil. I guess id have to call my LOR.

5:14 AM  
Blogger Rolling hills of green said...

That sounds very similar to the poem 'Hangman', which is very long to post.

11:34 AM  
Blogger 2R said...

Heidi - Welcome to the show!
you are creating more options, these are the only options availble to us. Preserving all lives wouln't preserve anyone's in the long run.
DifHH - I am impressed you're reading this!
Just a clarification, according to halacha you are required to kill somone (even not amalek) who is going to kill you. It's Rodef
Rolling - Thank you, it's also a cool poem. For anyone interested in reading it a link is: http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/articles6/hangman_by_maurice_o.htm

12:28 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

There's another interesting saying: "What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?"

2:17 PM  
Blogger Heidi said...

There's another interesting saying: "What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?"

huh? i dont get it.

4:46 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

It's a joke saying when you're confronted with a simulated theoretical question that doesn't really have an answer. I.E. What does one thing have to do with the other. A good example is if you tell your kid that they have to finish their dinner b/c there are kids starving in Africa. How does me finishing or not finishing my dinner help them or stop them from starving or even lead to them starving further? Theoretical question with no answer.
-OC

5:37 PM  
Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Simple: Worry about the Jews first. Not pretty, but that's the Halacha. We have enough problems worrying about ourselves (though LOTS of Jews care more about the world than their own people).

Jews first. Period.

6:03 PM  
Blogger Heidi said...

ah ha. I see. I know the saying... lol but I use it more in reference to say "whats that have to do with anything?"

for example my 3 yr old loves to bargain with me. He will demand cake. I'll say why? and he will say "I cleaned up nicely" In which I will respond: Yeah sure you cleaned up nicely, but whats that have to do with the price of tea in china?

get it?

6:03 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Yeah, same thing. What does one thing have to do with the other...
-OC

7:26 PM  
Blogger 2R said...

OC, I'm not sure what you are obsessing with, or even why you are obsessing. I can think of two things here you might be trying to put together.
1. What does this have to do with the former post.
2. What does the poem have to do with the peula.

The answer to mostly 1, but includes anything I write, it's my freakin' blog. I can write about anything I want at any time!

2. More then just one, they both have to do with passivity.

That's about all the 'splainin' I'll do about what I write.

12:00 AM  
Blogger Heidi said...

OC-
that is where i was confused... Im not sure what the metaphorical "price of tea" is that you are refering to.

It all has to do with everything because its S2's blog. I think it was a really interesting post. And it makes people think.

Isnt that what a blog is suposed to be?

S2- you go girl, i miss ya :)

1:46 AM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Wait a minute, I thought we were just bringing in stuff that we liked. Rolling brought in the Hangman poem. I brought in something I like. (There is the side note that the experiment is a theoretical question that doesn't really have an answer.) 2r, I'm very aware that you can write what you want. It is your blog. I know very well what you're saying. Don't over analyze this too much.
-OC

2:39 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home